Wiki 24:Articles for deletion/Del Toro's condemned building talk
AFD I know it isn't the place's actual name, but it was specifically referred to as this in The Game, and was even given a subtitle during gameplay that says "Condemned Building, East Korea Town". That's certainly enough to go on. --SignorSimon (talk/ / ) 09:33, June 29, 2010 (UTC) : But since it's presumably not the actual name of the building, it seems silly to me to create an article as if it is. The Game is very liberal with capitalizing words at times. If there's enough information, this article can be about condemned buildings, but I don't think we should have an article about this one specific building entitled "Condemned Building" --proudhug 13:37, June 29, 2010 (UTC) :: Why is it any different than having Omar Hassan's pen, Wireless handheld devices or Encryption? I can't imagine anyone on the show ever specifically said "wireless handheld device", and "encryption" is just a word. We could have articles for "Phone", "Car" or "Laptop" that's the issue. The reason why this is worthwhile is because it has something to offer, even if it isn't an "official name". And saying that, this is more of an official name than those listed before. You say The Game is "liberal" with capitalisation, but the point is to accurately document everything to do with 24. Obviously someone thought it was necessary to capitalise Condemned Building, so I made the article. --SignorSimon (talk/ / ) 15:44, June 29, 2010 (UTC) : You missed my point, though. "Condemned building" is a perfectly valid article if it's about all condemned buildings in the 24verse. But A) this article is improperly capitalized, and B) it's written about one specific condemned building as if that's it's official name, rather than being about the subject in general. We had the same issue years ago when people wanted to create an article about the Cougar, rather than an article about cougars. It's the exact same situation. --proudhug 15:59, June 29, 2010 (UTC) :: Easy fix: move to "Del Toro's condemned building". This would be in keeping with Omar Hassan's pen. 16:20, June 29, 2010 (UTC) ::: OK I've done that. I'll remove the redirects if ever a situation arises where we make a different "condemned building" page. Which we won't. --SignorSimon (talk/ / ) 16:31, June 29, 2010 (UTC) : Personally, I think these should be moved to pages called "Condemned building" and "Pen". It's much better that we have a collective article called "Dog" rather than individual ones for "Maude's dog" and "Joseph Wald's dog", no? This is the same situation. I think it looks quite ugly to have a bunch of articles titled "Person's object." --proudhug 16:46, June 29, 2010 (UTC) :: I think it's different for "dog" because every entry will be pretty much the same. However, Omar Hassan's pen has quite a lot of information. Plus having it all on one page makes having a sidebar look messy and what's the need to cram it all on one page when you can have more pages? Why is it 'worse' to do it like that? Also, how many instances are we going to get of pens deserving articles? --SignorSimon (talk/ / ) 16:52, June 29, 2010 (UTC) : That's sort of my point. How many noteworthy instances are there of pens on the show? Or condemned houses, or cars, or sewers? The only way to know is to make generic articles about them. Offhand, I know Farhad Hassan and Ramon Salazar have both used pens to fatally stab people in the neck. This would be quite interesting to read about in an article, in my opinion. Does each pen deserve its own article? Of course not. But to put all of these events on the same page as Omar's pen, would flesh out the article an make it much more useful. I mean, I totally disagree that there's "quite a lot of information" on the page. And I hardly think sidebars are necessary for items like this, but I also don't think it would look messy to include one for Omar's pen on the Pen page, if people feel it useful. I've always loved pages like Dog which group all of the information about one type of item onto one comprehensive page, and I think there should be more of them. Personally, I'd be thrilled if someone started pages for "Phone," "Car" and "Laptop"! --proudhug 17:10, June 29, 2010 (UTC) :: But if you wanted to find all noteworthy instances of "pen" you could look in the objects category and find everything that had "pen" in it. But I see your point. In any case, sidebars certainly are useful for these kinds of things and I really don't see how you can dispute that. It's the best way to show what episodes they appear in, because for stuff such as Jack's recording and many more that will be created (remember this is a new category we've just started with) it is in more than one episode and the most visually pleasing way of showing episodes is with the sidebar. I suppose it wouldn't look terrible to have multiple sidebars on the same page, so "pen" wouldn't be that much of a bad article. But they definitely would all need a sidebar for aesthetic and practical reasons. (by the way, check out Omar Hassan's pen, because it does have a sidebar) --SignorSimon (talk/ / ) 20:29, June 29, 2010 (UTC) : Oh, I'm not disputing the usefulness of sidebars, I'm just saying I don't think they're always necessary. I realize people prefer like to use them, so I wouldn't suggest removing them. But do you agree that it's more advantageous to group objects like this together rather than giving them each their own article? --proudhug 21:13, June 29, 2010 (UTC) :: I can see the merit both ways. You way helps to see all interesting instances of similar objects, and my way allows the best way to present objects and the easiest way to link directly to them specifically. --SignorSimon (talk/ / ) 23:31, June 29, 2010 (UTC) : Well then if people feel it's beneficial for specific objects like this to have their own page, they can always appear on both. If the information about a specific object is abundant, there can be a brief description of it on the generic page, with a link to the main article. --proudhug 01:45, June 30, 2010 (UTC) :: That sounds pretty good to me. It could almost be like Korea Town, and we just list different instances of pens on the "Pen" page, with links to the main article in a simple list. How does that sound? --SignorSimon (talk/ / ) 09:56, June 30, 2010 (UTC)